Be Decisive -- No Whine, Just Champagne Writing Discussion #178

Hi, all. I am decisively here.

I've been guilty on all counts.

Sometimes I take a risk I decide was too big, too bad, and too ugly for the reader and go back and tone it down. And in some areas I can't bring myself to take the risk and go there (hey, someone I know might actually read it some day, like my parents!)

Passive story telling, events, motivations, characters, etc. - that's usually when I'm basically jotting in a scene I know is needed but leads up to what I really want to be writing at the moment. I'm in a hurry to jot it down and move on to the juicy scene already playing out in my head, but also don't want to lose those details I'm jotting down and will forget later.

Skipping important action scenes - pretty much same as above.

Be decisive - not so easy when half the time you don't know what's going to happen until it starts to happen. Should he do this or that? Damn! If only I know what happens after so I know what he should do.

I know many would lecture me for it, but I find my writing is much more interesting when I write from the seat of my pants instead of plotting ahead. The plotted stories always feel so - planned, so plotted out. The fly bys always seem to have so much more oomph and are more interesting stories. - Mine anyway.

I used to be more passive, mostly because I like passive characters. If they are too agressive, oftentimes they seem like bullies. Now, though, I'm more aware of my abilities, and more aware of what the story needs, so I'm a bit more agressive in my writing, though I still don't write agressive characters.

Definitely here.

Definitely don't plot in concrete. I like my characters to tell me where they are going. Sometimes it gets really interesting.

Find I can't worry about what others might think. I write science fiction, fantasy and horror. Heavy on the the horror and dark fantasy.

It's good to be aware of one's own vision. Helps make your writing decisive. Those who don't know where they are going or why tend to be passive writers.

That's probably why I worry more about what others think. Some of the closest people to me would be much more approving if I wrote children's literature (which I'm really not very good at), instead of what I do write.

I don't worry about what others think, but I am aware that writing is only half of an equation. The other half is the reader. What germinates in one mind, blossoms in another.

I don't do kiddie lit, either - although I do write YA Sci-fi/Fantasy with liitle blood and gore. As for my other writing, I write the story as it comes, without regard to how others may judge. Then deal with the results later. Some of my family and friends don't "do" horror. They don't read those things I've written, but they still congratulate me for writing.

I'm lucky in two ways, first, most of my family doesn't read what I write, and second, my father reads everything. He was appalled at the sex in my first book, but read all the others anyway, even my grief book, which I would have thought he'd hate since it doesn't endorse his religious ideas. So now, I don't worry about what I write.

I've only had short stories and flash fiction available to the world outside my own personal computer and I don't actually know if anyone in my family has read any of it at all. Most of them I doubt can be bothered.

I don't think my husband has even read any of it.

So, see? You can fearlessly and decisively write what you want!

This is an interesting topic. The writer can become so concerned about what others will think of them that it can stymie the writer's choices.

I lot of passivity comes from word choice, such as "I guess it would be quite acceptable if perhaps we were a bit more decisive" instead of "be decisive".

I have my vision, but I listen to my characters. My female protagonist in The Chronicles of Acqueria: Blood Moon Treachery gave herself a sister. Now that sister will carry the second book: The Homecoming. Most thoughtful of my protagonist. :)

I wish I had characters like that. It would make it seem as if you have a writing companion. Me? I have to drag every character out me somehow, and they kick and scream all the way. I get no cooperation.

Sentia is special. :)

I find myself sometimes stifled, and some of my indecision coming from worrying over what others will think.

I can write a powerful scene that leaves me breathless, then go back and tone it down because I don't think anyone would even publish it as originally written (and worse, what would family think!)

And it's only seldom breathless in a sexually stimulating way. It's more of a horror story nature for the most part.

It actually seems a little silly at my age to be worrying over what parents and others might think. But some childhood hangups just never go away, do they?

So then, you need this discussion!!! Don't tone it down. Breathless is good. What leaves you breathless will leave others breathless, too.

Make yourself a plaque: What Would Stephen King Do? He wouldn't tone it down, nor would he think about what others might think. But I know about the childhood hangups. I no longer have to worry about any elders. I don't envy you your parental inner critic.

I have kept some of my original 'cuts' that I decided were too violent and gory for any publisher, reader, and certain to garner looks of reproval from certain others.

I find it worse if it is a scene that is sexual in nature. Thinking of your own parents (yes, even at my age!) reading it is embarrassing.

I do wonder about that sometimes. I grew up on Stephen King and Dean Koontz and others. I pretty much went from Black Beauty and The Black Stallion to King, Koontz, etc.

None of their stuff has been all that graphic as far as I can remember. Scary in more of a psychological way, but not gruesome. I suspect they do tone it down.

I don't have to worry about that anymore. My first book had some very graphic sex scenes, the second a couple of sex scenes, the third some love scenes, the fourth a bit of romance, but that's all. If I ever write a fifth book, it probably won't even have any romance!

Don't think of your parents, think of Stephen King and all the money he's made not censoring himself.

I'll probably be in my 80's my parents gone and stil have that nagging in my head.

So write what you want and worry about the rest later when you find a publisher. If a publisher likes your horror scenes, then your parents will be so proud of you they might not care. On the other hand, you could take them out. I met a writer here on gather whose parents were so appalled by his sex scenes that he removed them.

I don't share my writing until it's published somewhere, even on a free ezine at least.

So it would be too late for me.

The scenes or his parents? I'm sorry. I apologize. Being a horror writer, I just couldn't pass that one up.

I have a weird sense of humor, too.

Ann -- I missed that completely. Talk about indecisive writing!! But you're right, she could do either -- take out her parents or take out the scenes.

:)

Perhaps it has something to do with the intended audience. If your parents' generation is your target, then what you think would turn your parents off might have a similar effect on their peers.

John, that's an excellent point! Hadn't thought of that, but it's another element to consider if one has a targeted audience. (Still haven't found my target yet.)

I find I have less of a problem with passivity and more of a problem of repeating myself.

I grew up not being heard (you probably have to actually talk to be heard though). And having kids, well they just don't hear you until you've said it 10 x's, then yelled it 8 more to be heard over all their noise.

Now I go back and edit things I've repeated in the story, and I don't mean repeated some distance apart. I'm talking in the next sentence or two.

I've done the repeating thing, too. I'll do a whole scene, maybe, and then think - hey, didn't I do that somewhere else. sometimes, I find the second scene better than the first time. That's embarrassing. BTW, children are the "great distractors" of the universe. :)

Echoes are no good, but those can be edited out. If you repeat yourself during the course of the book it's either redundant, in which case once is enough and the repetitions should be edited out, or it's emphasis. If it's emphasis, then you need to say it three times throughout the course of the book so the point sticks. But which repetitions are reduntant and which are emphasis? I haven't a clue.

When you same the same thing in different words in the same paragraph, I'd say it's definately reduntant. That's me, Mrs. Redunant.

I definitely edit out my redundancies. But thanks for the three times for emphasis idea. That sounds great for dropping little hints.

1. When describing a character or scene, mention three attributes. Also, if a particular attribute needs to be fixed in the reader’s mind, mention it three times (and only three times) during the course of the book, and it will stick.

2. When devising a plot, follow the storyline of The Three Bears. The first time the hero tries to reach her goal, she fails but learns the risks. The second time she tries, she confirms that she’s doing things wrong, but she learns from her mistakes. The third time she tries, she gets it right.

3. Look for patterns in your story. If your character has made love under the stars and perhaps gone to a concert under the stars, mention stars once more to solidify the pattern.

" But which repetitions are reduntant and which are emphasis? I haven't a clue." I suspect that you do have an instinct for that.

John, I know for my writing which repetitions are redundant and which are for emphasis, but I can't tell other people which are which for their writing -- that is up to them to decide.

Three is a powerful number that satisfies our need for symmetry. Think how many times it shows up in mythology, fairy tales, and popular culture. A few obvious threes:

Three wishes. Three bears. Three little pigs. Three fates. Three furies. Three graces. Three muses. Three outs. Best two out of three. Three Faces of Eve. Three Days of the Condor. Third time lucky. Love triangle

Then there's the Wiccan rule of three - what ever you do comes back to you in threes. BTW, thanks for the info on three's. I'll be sure to make a note of it.

But aren't there four riders of the apocalypse? - The four horsemen
The four leaf clover
Four seasons, four directions of the compass, four elements (fire, water, air, earth).

I find it interesting how to many myths and beliefs revolve around numbers to the point it can affect some people's every day lives. (Just try and find a 13th floor anywhere - it's like the number just ceases to exist).

Calling a floor the fourteeth does not erase the reality of it being the thirteenth.

You're right about four. Hmm. Kind of negates my three theory. But . . . four and three mutiplied together give us twelve, which is a sacred number. (Twelve months, twelve signs of the zodiad). And so is nine (nine muses).

But nine is three threes, so it fits with the power of three.

Gonna sign off for now. Gotta work on formatting a poetry book. Love poetry - not real fond of formatting it. I'll check back for further updates. This was great! If I can only remember on Thursdays.

Thank you, Ann, Lori, and John for a wonderful discussion! It was a joy, as always.